tongues twister
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“… i have a prayer language,” he said, almost hesitatingly, as though i might suddenly storm out of the restaurant.
“oh, cool,” i said.
“i’ve had it since i was younger. i’ve never had any kind of public pronouncement or anything, it’s something done in private, during my personal prayer time.”
“Oh, well that’s Scriptural.” and it’s true.
despite my background in non-charismatic churches, i have no problem with tongues and prayer languages that are exhibited in a Scriptural manner and context. why? um. well, it’s Scriptural, duh! now, having said all that, i have never been so moved by the Spirit to speak in tongues or prophecy, or any other type of Spirit-motivated manifestation of messages from God.
but the conversation i had with my new friend greg the other day brought back a rather amusing conversation had several years ago during bible college.
several of us were sitting around talking about the fruits of the spirit – my college was not a big tongues kind of place – if i remember correctly they believe that speaking in tongues ceased a couple generations after the apostles. i must’ve been sleeping during that class.
but there we were, talking away, and one of the guys was from the church of god movement – a charismatic / pentecostal / full gospel denomination that, if this dude represented all we knew about them, then the representation would be rather frightening – he began telling us how, when he was a young boy in the CoG church, they would “help the Spirit along” with certain phrases.
and we genuinely didn’t have any idea what he was talking about.
“certain ‘phrases’ – what does that mean?”
“well, if we were at a revival or something and we weren’t speaking in tongues, we were taught that after a while we should start saying the phrase ‘my knee, my toe’ over and over, slowly at first, then faster, ‘mykneemytoemykneemytoemykneemytoe’ until the Spirit finally kicked in.”
“kicked in,” i said, “like a lawn mower or something?” i had begun to visualize the Spirit waiting for the gas to meet the spark and then saying, “ok! here i come! you got the right combination at last!”
“well, kind of. it seemed to produce the right atmosphere for the Spirit to come.”
and the rest of us didn’t know what to say. so we said nothing, sitting in awkward silence until class started.
later, two of us were recounting this conversation with one of our professors. he said the phrases varied and the one he heard the most was “see my tie, tie my tie” – again, starting off slowly, increasing in speed until miraculously you were “filled with the Holy Spirit” and suddenly you’re speaking in genuine tongue-like fashion.
that kind of “priming the pump” completely takes away from everything the bible says about this type of spiritual gift – there’s no magic incantation or phrase or hokus pocus that will suddenly motivate the Spirit like this.
but when greg talked about tongues as a private prayer language, there is evidence of this in Scripture. to be certain, we could argue (and many have) until we’re blue in the face on the question of whether speaking in tongues genuinely exists in the present or not, but the bottom line is that the focus needs to be on the giver of the gift, not the recipient – working yourself into a babbling lather with ‘conducive’ phrases gives no glory to God.
gosh. i have no pithy one-liner with which to end this post.
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July 4th, 2008 12:40 pm
# 1
Moldy-wan Dude, you know I was totally joking. :)
July 3rd, 2008 11:54 pm
# 2
thank goodness for differing opinions, theological or otherwise.
mark: i disagree with you completely, mainly because of the rest of that conversation as well as others over the years. it’s not a centering prayer when you’re teaching it to little children and other folks easily swayed due to circumstances and situations.
adrienne: i’m all for taking a step out there, but it can’t just be a free-for-all. given your analytical nature, it surprises me that you would seemingly bypass Biblical standards just to hope that maybe what was happening was the Spirit.
scott: hijack my blog any time. seriously. i appreciate your feedback. i’m with you on your defense of impact (despite my issues with a small number of folks there).
rachael: one of my favorite professors at CCU used to say: if you want to read the king james bible, don’t go to a church that uses the NIV and then raise a stink about it! if you want a church that does communion every sunday, don’t go to a church that does communion every quarter only and raise a stink about it! you’re exactly right – all those denominations out there and so many different flavors of faith all with essentially the same focus but different ways of expressing or living it!
July 3rd, 2008 8:04 pm
# 3
Dude,
Despite the fact I am a contented heathen, I’m able to see what apparently went right over your head. The young fellow from the CoG congregation tried, but was not quite able, to explain what should have been clear to you: His choice of phraseology was not intended to “kick start” the Holy Spirit. It was intended to remove his attention from the environment around him and relax it so as to “allow” the Holy Spirit to enter his heart, or his consciousness, or whatever part of his spirit one’s faith presumes the connection.
Consider this: sitting there with the intention “Okay Holy Spirit . . . I’m waiting; show yourself!” throws up an emotional wall and your intention remains focused on your disbelief, or lack of faith that the Holy Spirit is going to do anything out of the ordinary in your life. Ergo, nothing happens. You’re blocking any possibility of experiencing something that your previous authority figures did not tell you about.
Those fellows in the CoG, when they realize their intention is focused improperly, start uttering what to you and me seems a silly phrase. After some time, their intention “lets go” of their outside environment and opens itself to awareness. Not awareness of anything in particular, but just plain “awareness.” That is when they are in the frame of mind, spirit, grace, what have you, to actually become aware of the Holy Spirit within them. And they believe that indwelling of the Spirit is what causes them to speak in tongues.
And while I don’t utilize silly phases when I wish to communicate with my spirit guide (who is not related in any way to the Holy Spirit you speak of), I do actively release my intention from the surrounding environment to allow my spirit guide to communicate with me. i.e.: I “make it easy.”
Clear as mud, huh?
Namaste,
Moldy-Wan -_-
July 3rd, 2008 10:00 am
# 4
ok, so I guess I should have included a disclaimer:
I like impact. I went there happily for a number of years. Nice people, gospel preaching, etc. I pray and think of you all often and remember you fondly.
Let’s just say that prayer, being aware of the Spirit (in all forms – tongues and otherwise (healing, prophecy, visions – Acts 2:17)) and literally making decisions based on the moving of the Spirit are really important to me. I realized quickly that impact wasn’t really invested in those in the ways they were with other ministries. So I got involved and tried to make it happen. Did it? sorta.
I thank God and pray for Brett, Ruth, Randy, the Lays, and the few others who actually showed that they cared about these things with their actions. Maybe things have changed, but I experienced verbal support, but very little actual commitment.
and therefore, it makes me sad to hear that people are blasting fakers (which they should be, but…) – scaring people more and causing more judgment, and not encouraging Chrsitians to take a step out there and trust even more in the the things unseen.
Basically, I put a lot of effort in and tried really hard, and it hurt that very few people (most of which were already interested in this stuff independently) moved passed being “open” to real action.
July 3rd, 2008 6:08 am
# 5
adrienne,
just FYI, there are quite a few folks at impact who speak in tongues. they just don’t “show off” their gift, which i think is a mature way to handle the gifts.
i’m wondering if maybe you’ve had frustrating conversations with a few people who might be opposed to tongues… if so, it is possible that you think it’s a “whole church” thing when it’s actually an “a few people” thing.
the huge majority of folks i’ve had these conversations with are very “open” to the supernatural- honestly, how anyone can say that “the spirit doesn’t move like that anymore” is beyond me. god put this stuff in the bible. i doubt he’d put stuff in the new covenant if it wasn’t still relevant.
i KNOW that the spirit has specifically spoken through me a handful of times… and… i could go on… but i shan’t…
i know scott r + impact didn’t end well, so i feel a little weird defending that church here on this site… but impact has been a place of great healing for me. it is absolutely not perfect (and everyone says “amen”), but it has been the right congregation at the right time for me.
my first church was full of holy spirit fakers. they essentially kidnapped me and wouldn’t let me leave until i spoke in tongues. as the prayer mob got increasingly frustrated at my “lack of spirit”, i started mumbling, and they started rejoicing, and i felt absolutely nothing. it was a horrible experience that, to this day, i consider to be abusive. beyond that experience, the adults were just plain mean. i was a freaking new believer! they did not treat me like a child of god. at all.
my next church was the polar opposite. they seemed to believe that the holy spirit was dead. yeah, the spirit existed in biblical times, but god doesn’t work that way anymore… and the people were dead. leadership wondered why the people were dead. hello?!?! mcfly?!?! maybe it’s because the very spirit of life wasn’t invited into the building?!?!
these 2 church experiences made me want to quit the faith. i was 21 and hopeless that there could ever be a decent church with decent doctrine. and while impact has certainly made mistakes in the way they have done things, their commitment to agreeing on the essentials and giving freedom in the grey areas has restored hope in me that there are churches that don’t completely suck.
[mr rust, sir... sorry for highjacking your thread. if you want to just delete this and pass it on to adrienne, i understand.]
scott d
July 2nd, 2008 4:12 pm
# 6
Great post. My favorite well-priming phrases are “didyouseemetiemybowtie” and “kickstartamyhonda”. :)
July 2nd, 2008 12:54 pm
# 7
I have mixed feelings on the subject…while on one hand, I think that speaking in tongues and other spiritual gifts are definitely biblical, and that it is sad to see Gods people not opening themselves up the Spirit…on the other hand, I agree with Scott that not everyone is moved by the Spirit to speak in tongues, etc. I also think that it is to be expected that there will be churches and Christians who have a hard time opening up to the idea of very spiritual gifts. After all, we are only human, and if it was up to us to let the spirit move or to do everything right in our Christian walk, well God wouldnt be doing much on this earth through us. However, even though I do wish more churches would be open to exploring spiritual things, I dont think badly about those churches in general. Just because they have a harder time understanding/believing in the very supernatural parts of God doesnt mean that they dont have a purpose and that God isnt working through them.
There are churches of all types, for all kinds of people, and the fact that there can be many churches with such different atmospheres, but that the people in them are still loving and serving the Lord, and that people are coming to Christ through the work of those Christians, continues to astound me.
I used to have more of a problem with churches that werent like mine, or that werent like what my ideal church would be, but Im thinking more and more that I need to get over that, because it is putting me in a position of judgement that I dont want to be in anymore. If they are Christians who are really striving to serve the Lord, then I should be thanking God for those people and praying that God work through them to reach others. Just some thoughts here.
July 2nd, 2008 8:38 am
# 8
so, educate / expound a bit more on all this, adrienne. consider your dismay noted but tell us more!
July 2nd, 2008 7:08 am
# 9
well, you know how I feel – just fueling the fire of paranoia.
but consider your attempt at moderation noted.
it still makes me sad to think about places like impact and their lack of openess to the supernatural (“but it’s strange and bizarre, and almost, like not natural!”…) movement of the holy spirit.
but it’s better to never try than risk one person fake it…right?
July 2nd, 2008 6:00 am
# 10
amen.